Navigating the VUCA World: Finding Fulfilling Work During the Pandemic Part 2

This week’s feature follows last week’s conversation with The Winters Group’s newest Learning and Innovation team members, Tami Jackson and Gabrielle Gayagoy Gonzalez. Here, Tami goes deeper into how she disrupts dominant narratives and what helps her with navigating our Volatile, Uncertain, Complex, and Ambiguous world. 

 

Gabby: So glad we got to connect last week, Tami. You had so many insights to share that I think a lot of  people can benefit from hearing. For example, we touched on a few things that can help BIPOC and particularly Black employees in a VUCA world.  

 

Tami: Yeah, what would have helped was people doing that work before George Floyd got killed. It shouldn’t have taken quite literally another Black life, because this has happened several times in my lifetime. George Floyd was not the first time that I came to work and some Black person was murdered by state-sanctioned violence and I just had to sit there and deal — largely alone. It would have been nice for people to think about that beforehand.

It shouldn’t have taken quite literally another Black life. George Floyd was not the first time I came to work and a Black person was murdered by state-sanctioned violence, and I had to sit there and deal, largely alone. Share on X

 

Gabby: Absolutely, because there are so many other ways systemic racism can manifest and be identified and addressed before it gets to that point. 

  

Tami: It was very clear to me that in my previous experiences, no matter how wonderful or how understanding or empathetic my previous management was, the organization as a whole did not value me. Right? I knew that because when I chose to show up as myself, I would be denied leadership opportunities. It does not matter where I am or what I am doing, I am the type of person that will eventually push back. And being that type of woman, especially that type of Black woman, there was not going to be a path forward. I was going to have to continue to jump more hurdles than I was seeing my peers jump. For example, I remember a senior vice president, when I first got pulled into the L&D team at a previous job saying something along the lines of like, yeah, “Tami is yet to be proven.” In front of everyone on my team. As if I were some 21-year-old straight out of college and not a professional who had well over a decade of experience at that time. 

I was also tired of the fact that, yeah we were getting more Black people, but those Black folks were only being hired in entry level positions, right? They were only being considered for leadership if they were a certain type of Black — ya know, very Euro-centric and non-threatening, and people who actively assimilated.  

We were getting more Black people, but those Black folks were only being hired in entry level positions. They were only being considered for leadership if they were a certain type of Black — who actively assimilated. Share on X

And then the leadership positions were all people who were thin and conventionally attractive and conventionally thought to be beautiful, right? This has been the case in every job I have ever had. 

There was not a person of size, fat or large – especially no women – in any leadership position in any job I have ever taken in my entire career.  

Not only am I fat but I’m tall so like, people don’t see me as a leader, they see me as if I am a clown. They see me as comic relief, the same way we see fat Black women in entertainment. They see me as somebody whose purpose is to make them feel better. Not as a leader or a person to be respected or supported career-wise.  

 

Gabby: Thank you for being so vulnerable, Tami. The negative effects of experiencing that dominant narrative around success and leadership are very real and definitely compound over time, and that’s so wrong. You are being a leader right now by sharing this the way that you are. What are some other ways this has shown up for you in a VUCA world? 

 

Tami: When most of us think of the word volatile, we tend to think of more blatant ish right? Many people tend to think of screaming, yelling, and cursing. Yes, that’s a part of what can constitute a volatile environment for sure, but for me (and I previously authored an article about this, Nice vs. Kind, in The Inclusion Solution,) people in volatile environments deliberately weaponized uncertainty and condoned power- and information-hoarding and being intentionally ambiguous.

When most of us think of the word volatile, we think blatant yelling and cursing. That’s a part of it, but for me, people in volatile environments deliberately weaponized uncertainty and condoned information-hoarding. Share on X

Another example of a VUCA environment that I have experienced is people asking me to tone it down or excluding me from opportunities because of how I dress, style my hair, or even how I speak. And you know, it’s always funny because in my experience only white people have ever asked me to “tone it down.” My own people, who may have been sucked up in white supremacist patriarchy capitalism tell me I’m too much or I am “doing too much.” Being one’s true self for real for real — makes other people uncomfortable.  

 

Gabby: That’s actually something I love about being in community with you, Tami — you are always unapologetically yourself! I’m glad you don’t tone it down, however, I can see how others with power might hold that against you for challenging “the norm.” 

  

Tami: It doesn’t really matter; I have said before: White supremacy is not the shark, it’s the water. So, any of us can be arbiters of it. In my career I had to continuously remind people that I am not a project to be fixed. In my experience, people think of me as something, err someone, to groom because I am considered rough around the edges or not “refined” enough. I mean, if I had a dollar for every time someone called me “unrefined,” or “rough around the edges,” or “gruff” or any adjective of the like, I would have paid off my student loan debt. I must ask, why do folks feel like I need to be groomed or fixed? Who taught you that folks like me need to be “tamed?” What tenets of white supremacy have you been adhering to that make you feel the need to correct a person or offer unsolicited advice on how they should show up in the world? Why do they make you uncomfortable? Just some questions to sit with, ya know?

White supremacy is not the shark it’s the water. So, any of us can be arbiters of it. In my career I had to continuously remind people that I am not a project to be fixed. People think of me as not 'refined' enough. Share on X

My hope is – the more people engage with someone like me, the more they leave room for others like me to exist in their day-to-day lives without feeling the need to change and fix them – but feeling encouraged to learn and grow about others as well as about themselves. If you felt free yourself, I promise you would not feel the need to police others on how they choose to show up in the world.  

 

Gabby: That reminds me of something you said last week that really resonated: “If you can just allow me to be me, I’m going to be one of the best assets you have on your team ever.” 

 

Tami: And it’s possible to shift, right? It just takes great leadership who is willing to let people be themselves and see that as an asset and not liability. Leaders who are curious about how these kinds of folks add value to your team or organization rather than see them as a detriment. And to do that, one must examine one’s own relationship to white supremacy culture.

It takes great leadership who is willing to let people be themselves and see that as an asset and not liability. Leaders who are curious about how folks add value to your organization rather than see them as a detriment. Share on X

I think about that when I refer to myself as the “Dennis Rodman of DE&I” (yes, even down to the fashion statements and the bold hair colors). I also think of the coaches and teammates Rodman had who supported him to be himself because they knew that supporting Rodman would shine a light on and bring immense value to their organizations. When his assistant coach in Detroit grew increasingly frustrated with Rodman’s self-expression and unwillingness to conform — Coach Chuck Daly told the assistant coach, “Leave him be. You cannot put a saddle on a mustang.” And just like that, Daly provided Rodman the proper aircover and support that he needed and fertile soil for them to grow together in. That relationship, that trust that Daly and Rodman built, and then later the same bond he shared with Phil Jackson while on the Bulls, is that same kind of bond that disrupts VUCA culture. Both Daly and Jackson knew that they had to let Rodman be himself and in return, they got one of the greatest defenders in the history of the game. Multiple staff and former teammates admitted they would not have won their championships without Rodman.  

One of my favorite quotes that further sums this up is from Dr. Nikole Hannah Jones: “You have to understand that when you make the conscious decision not to conform you keep your dignity, but it might take you longer to get to where you want to be. And you might not get there at all. But is it worth it if you make it and you don’t arrive there intact? And I would say it is not.”  

 

Gabby: One hundred percent — this work takes so much time to get right. And then we also need to take into account our lived experiences, which you mentioned as a strength in doing this work. How did this shape your job search? Like what kinds of questions were going through your mind? 

 

Tami: I want to know from leadership: are you going to provide air cover? Are you going to advocate for your direct reports? Are you going to create a safe space for them to be themselves? How do you talk to them? How do you manage a person individually, not a blanket way? How are your needs supported by your leadership? How did you get to know your teammates and/or direct reports? For instance, I know that Gabby has a 2-3-year-old, a tiny person that sometimes she’s going to have to jump off to go handle her business with. Did you know that Tami has chronic illness? Do you know people on your team have anxiety, or they’re neurodivergent? What have you taught yourself about the best way to lead folks who have that lived experience? What are your expectations of them based from? How are those expectations rooted in white supremacy culture? I would have loved to have that when I first started my career, and for the majority of my career I did not, and I am grateful that I have that relationship with Brittany now.  

I want to know from leadership: are you going to provide air cover? Are you going to advocate for your direct reports? How do you talk to them? How do you manage a person individually, not a blanket way? Share on X

 

Gabby: Yes, the actual leader can make such a huge difference. And these are such pointed questions! Have you actually brought these things up when you interview? 

 

Tami: Yes, at my interview for The Winters Group and the interviews previous at other organizations. I mean, here’s the thing, Gabby, because my previous boss before this was a white woman and white man, I felt like it was imperative for us to have those “hard conversations” early on. But even when leaders are Black or POC, these questions are still important to ask.  

For instance, I’ve asked previous leaders: Have you ever managed a Black woman before? I just asked them, point blank. I needed to know what their level of experience was just like they wanted to know what my level of experience was for the role I was interviewing for. It allowed both of us to have an honest conversation about how their experience managing me will be different than managing anyone else because of my unique intersections. It also allowed all of us to get vulnerable and ask for what we needed and to see how we could potentially navigate that if any of our needs conflicted. It made them so much better prepared to support a team member like me and keep an eye out to things they had limited perspective on before. I will not say it was easy, and came without a learning curve… but it was certainly worth it to have those kinds of conversations so early and often.  

 

Gabby: It may blow their mind, but it’s so needed! What other advice do you have for readers who are trying to navigate the VUCA world?  

 

Tami: I know that I sound like a broken record when I say this, but I’m very clear on what my needs are as far as me being successful in a workplace environment. And I know this, because the majority of my professional career I have not been treated well. And that teaches you a few things. So, at this point I am very clear on my needs. I would say that for those who are trying to navigate the VUCA world, be truly clear on what it is you need to be successful in the workplace. And be sure to get granular and not just focus on the salary and ROI. Get extremely specific. Write it down and make a list. Then practice asking for what you need — with friends, family, and trusted colleagues. Remember, the clearer you are the more folks who can support you can find you.

Be truly clear on what it is you need to be successful in the workplace. And get granular and not just focus on the salary and ROI. Get extremely specific. Write it down and make a list. Then practice asking for what you need. Share on X

 

Gabby: Amen! You are voicing thoughts that so many people have probably wanted to say to their bosses, Tami. Thank you for putting all of this out there and for being unapologetically yourself. You truly are the Dennis Rodman of DE&I. 

 

 

 

Co-author: Gabrielle Gayagoy Gonzalez